Hey all,
I've received a few messages from some of you asking about this winter's 12th Scale season. I thought I'd put together a 12th Scale Info thread here to answer some of your questions:
12th Scale Newcomers
What
IROCC races 12th Scale cars in the winter. These cars are slightly smaller than our outdoor cars, and are well suited to the smaller track size of our indoor facility. The indoor track is made of a very fine carpet. 12th Scale cars use foam tires which stick extremely well to the carpet track surface. IROCC uses the CRC Clik Trak barrier system to create the layout.
This is what an indoor track looks like:
http://www.teamcrc.com/crc/images/stories/Snowbirds09/birds_trackpic1.jpg
http://www.teamcrc.com/crc/images/stories/Snowbirds09/birds_trackpic4.jpg
This is what the cars look like:
http://www.cmldistribution.co.uk/product/AS4018/gallery/Team-Associated-AS4018-1.jpg
http://www.teamcrc.com/crc/images/stories/Snowbirds09/frankscar-sml.jpg
http://www.wnyrcinfo.com/images/Articles/CRCGENX/GENX6.jpg
http://www.teamcrc.com/crc/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=101
Where
IROCC's winter racing facility is the Boys and Girls Club of Victoria (In the gym; follow sloped ramp up the side of the building). They are located here:
1240 Yates Street, Victoria
http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&q=1240+Yates+Street,+Victoria+BC&ie=UTF8&ll=48.42641,-123.347454&spn=0.014552,0.038495&z=15&iwloc=r0
When
Saturday evenings, 4PM - 10:30PM
Track setup usually happens at 4:15PM.
Open practice is from 5PM - 6PM
First qualifier is 6PM
Which chassis?
There are quite a few choices in the 12th Scale market these days. Here are some:
Associated, BMI, Corally, CRC (Calandra Racing Concepts), Serpent, XRay
At IROCC, the CRC brand is the most popular. That is not to say that you can't choose another brand of car, but when it comes to parts support, you will have the *most* success with a CRC car. This is simply because 70% of the club uses these cars and so there are many spare parts floating around.
The older CRC cars are called "Carpet Knife" while the newer kits are called "Gen-X or Gen-XL". If you are a newcomer to 12th Scale, try to find a good deal on a used "Carpet Knife". This car will will get you around the track and allow you to become as competitive as you need. Once you can run a race without tapping a wall, then worry about upgrading to the latest and greatest kit.
Batteries?
It used to be simple. 12th Scale cars would run a 4-cell NiMH pack. Now that NiMH is being phased out of R/C, the 12th Scale market is moving toward LiPo batteries. For the IROCC 2009/2010 season, all racers are permitted to run either a 4-cell NiMH pack, or a 1 cell 3.7V LiPo pack. If you are newcomer, try to find a good deal (free) on some 4-cell NiMH packs. If you're ready to take the LiPo leap, do a little research and be sure that the LiPo "brick style" pack will fit in your car. Also note that a 3.7V LiPo pack may require you to run a Voltage Booster in your car so that the receiver, servo, and transponder will see the full 6.0V that they are expecting.
Motors?
IROCC runs 12th "Stock" exclusively. This means you must run either a 27T brushed motor, or a 17.5 brushless motor; same deal as out door racing. This means that most racers can use the same motor they are currently using in their outdoor Touring Car.
Speed Controls?
Most speed controller will work fine, as long as you can fit it on the chassis. This means that most racers can use the same speed control they are currently using in their outdoor Touring Car.
Servo?
Because 12th Scale cars are very small, you will likely require a mini-servo for steering duties. I'm not 100% sure of the best place to get a mini servo.... Common mini servos are the Airtronics 94145 or the JR 3650. On the budget side there is the Hitec HS-225BB.
Tires?
12th Scale cars use foam tires. They are very similar to the foam tires we use on our outdoor Pro10 cars, but they are smaller in size. Note that 12th Scale cars get incredible traction because of the carpet track surface. So you don't have to worry about spinning out like in Pro10! There are many compounds of foam tires, but most beginners will do well to start with Grey (or GreyLo) rear tires, and Purple (or Black) fronts. Do yourself a favour and check with Craig Roberts about tires. Also note that I have several sets of tires from last year that I will give away free to newcomers.
12th Scale Videos
These video give you an idea of what 12th Scale racing is all about. Note that these cars are running Modified motors rather than Stock!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seT68ViBrEM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuAn5b8zS8Q
12th Scale Veterans
Changes for 2009/2010
As you all know, the big change for 2009/2010 is the inclusion of LiPo batteries into the mix. The industry is 100% behind LiPo for 12th Scale, and ALL big races this year are LiPo only. Because we are a small-time club group, we are allowing both 4-cell NiMH and LiPo technology to run together this winter. We will attempt to even the field through weight limits, and we've already posted that NiMH cars will run at 880 grams while LiPo cars will run at 730 grams. Adjustments may be made to this as we run through our initial "short" points series.
If you are interested in upgrading your 12th Scale gear this winter, here is what you need to know:
Batteries
Single cell LiPo is taking over 12th Scale. Several manufactures have packs: Reedy, SMC, and Thunder Power.
IROCC is bringing in the SMC pack which is very comparable to the other two. Basically, we're talking about 4900mAh, 3.7V, 40C. You *might* be able to run a B-Main AND an A-Main on one pack if you can get a small charge into it while you're re-saucing your tires.
Note that currently all single cell LiPo packs are "brick style" and will NOT fit properly in a T-Bar car. Some racers in the US are running the pack along the side of the chassis (like in a touring car) with the electronics on the other side. This is workable, but obviously not ideal. Hopefully a saddle-pack style single cell LiPo will hit the market soon.
Voltage Boosters
I think it depends on your exact setup, but you may require a voltage booster or receiver pack when running a single cell LiPo. I haven't done full research on this yet, but there are a few voltage boosters out there:
Novak: http://www.teamnovak.com/products/smart_boost/index.html
TQ: http://www.tqcells.com/TQBOOSTER.htm
MPN: http://www.mpnset.com/english/product.asp?ArticleID=708
Motors
Here are a couple of popular 17.5 motors:
Trinity: http://www.teamepiconline.com/shop/item_new.asp?item=TEP1002
Tekin: http://www.teamtekin.com/blmotors.html
Brushless Speed Controllers
Easily the most popular brushless speed control at IROCC (and maybe anywhere):
Tekin: http://www.teamtekin.com/rs.html
I hope that helps!
Blake
Please feel free to ask any questions you may have. And, if anyone can add anything to the above, please post here.
Thanks,
Blake
I think we *might* want to consider a group-buy on Voltage Boosters if enough people are interested.
Blake
Blake
Great job on the info for all.
Good work, Blake.
I hear that Tekin has something in the works by way of a voltage booster for the RS and RS Pro. I will follow up.
P.
Quote from: RC51 on September 04, 2009, 07:18:39 PM
Good work, Blake.
I hear that Tekin has something in the works by way of a voltage booster for the RS and RS Pro. I will follow up.
P.
Thanks Phil,
Yes, please check with Tekin on that!
Also, I don't know where you stand with your connections, but I can forsee the possibility of some of our racers wanting to purchase Tekin ESCs, and possibly Tekin or Trinity 17.5 motors for the winter season. If your channels are still open, and you are willing to do this, it might be a good service for those that are looking for something new this winter, but really have no idea where to find it. For example, I've had at least two racers ask about which ESC to buy, and where. And I've had three/four people asking about 17.5 motors, and where to buy them.
Of course there are many other options: Shaver Shop, Stores in Vancouver, Online Stores, eBay, etc... but a familiar face is always nice to deal with.
No worries if you're not "enthralled" about the legwork of managing something like that...!
Blake
Quote from: Blake on September 04, 2009, 06:14:31 PM
Please feel free to ask any questions you may have. And, if anyone can add anything to the above, please post here.
Thanks,
Blake
Blake I also used this as a receiver pack and it work well.. about $15.00 at the shaver shop
(http://images.amainhobbies.com/images/large/losb0848.jpg)
Quote from: Blake on September 04, 2009, 08:31:57 PM
No worries if you're not "enthralled" about the legwork of managing something like that...!
Hey, Blake.
Yep - account still active with Tekin. Someone else can gather the specific details, though - how many RS/RS Pro, Hotwire, 17.5 etc and I will find out about the voltage booster. We won't keep the account with Epic (trinity) open, though. We've been burned in the past and we have no reason to believe things have improved. If someone can get me the numbers of interested parties etc, I'll get a quote together and take care of the admin.
P.
Good Day!
I am looking forword to racing 1/12th. How many sets of tirers would I expect to go through if I race the season?
Thanks, Neil.
Quote from: RC51 on September 04, 2009, 09:48:55 PM
Quote from: Blake on September 04, 2009, 08:31:57 PM
No worries if you're not "enthralled" about the legwork of managing something like that...!
Hey, Blake.
Yep - account still active with Tekin. Someone else can gather the specific details, though - how many RS/RS Pro, Hotwire, 17.5 etc and I will find out about the voltage booster. We won't keep the account with Epic (trinity) open, though. We've been burned in the past and we have no reason to believe things have improved. If someone can get me the numbers of interested parties etc, I'll get a quote together and take care of the admin.
P.
if you could let me know on the cost, id be interested in a brushless setup and the booster..
Quote from: RC51 on September 04, 2009, 09:48:55 PM
Quote from: Blake on September 04, 2009, 08:31:57 PM
No worries if you're not "enthralled" about the legwork of managing something like that...!
Hey, Blake.
Yep - account still active with Tekin. Someone else can gather the specific details, though - how many RS/RS Pro, Hotwire, 17.5 etc and I will find out about the voltage booster. We won't keep the account with Epic (trinity) open, though. We've been burned in the past and we have no reason to believe things have improved. If someone can get me the numbers of interested parties etc, I'll get a quote together and take care of the admin.
P.
Thanks Phil,
I will check in with the folks who have been asking me about this stuff. Once we have concrete numbers we can look to do an order.
Blake
Quote from: BCbud on September 04, 2009, 11:21:38 PM
Good Day!
I am looking forword to racing 1/12th. How many sets of tirers would I expect to go through if I race the season?
Thanks, Neil.
Hey Neil,
I find that the newer breed of foam 12th Scale tires will last about 4 race nights. The newer breed tires are smaller in diameter than the old tires. I bet a set of old tires could last 6 - 8 race nights if you can find em. Not sure if Craig can get those original tires anymore....
I have a few sets of mounted tires that I will bring to the track on Sunday. I will be giving them out (free) to some of the newer racers as I am not planning on using these particular compounds this year. That said, they are still excellent tires and could win on any given raceday!
Blake
Quote from: BCbud on September 04, 2009, 11:21:38 PM
Good Day!
I am looking forword to racing 1/12th. How many sets of tirers would I expect to go through if I race the season?
Thanks, Neil.
I will look to see what I have put away from last season.
Quote from: Blake on September 05, 2009, 01:51:23 AM
Quote from: BCbud on September 04, 2009, 11:21:38 PM
Good Day!
I am looking forword to racing 1/12th. How many sets of tirers would I expect to go through if I race the season?
Thanks, Neil.
Hey Neil,
I find that the newer breed of foam 12th Scale tires will last about 4 race nights. The newer breed tires are smaller in diameter than the old tires. I bet a set of old tires could last 6 - 8 race nights if you can find em. Not sure if Craig can get those original tires anymore....
Blake
Shaver shop still has some old style Jaco's for $15/pr. Purple fronts, gray rears.
And stormer hobbies has limited old style GRP foam for $13/US/pr.
Shawn.
Oh, should also point out that GSR Hobbies has the new Jaco gray for $12/pr, and the purple fronts are $9/pr. (Canadian funds.)
Shawn.
Hey, Guys,
OK. A number of people have been asking for the TEKIN motors and brushless details. The final cost will be determined by the number of people ordering and I would, naturally, provide you the quote before the order is placed.
If you are interested in a TEKIN motor for 1/12 (or other) and if you want either the RS or the RS Pro Speedos or any other paraphernalia, shoot me a PM by THIS FRIDAY 11 September at noon and I should have prices at the track on the weekend assuming I can reach our contacts at TEKIN in the afternoon. Please send by PM only as I will be away from the CPU for a fair bit this week but should get your message on my PDA.
Tx.
P.
id be interested in a rs, or the rs pro depending on the price ..
Jarrod, it sounds like Phil would like a PM to be sure that he sees your request.
Blake
Quote from: Shawn68z on September 05, 2009, 01:10:20 PM
Shaver shop still has some old style Jaco 12th Scale tires for $15/pr. Purple fronts, gray rears.
Thanks for the info Shawn. Those tires would be perfect for newcomers. It's a good compound selection, and they are the large diameter tires while should last quite a few race nights.
Blake
Quote from: jarrodH on September 07, 2009, 12:42:34 PM
id be interested in a rs, or the rs pro depending on the price ..
damn. that was sapposed to be a pm..lol
Quote from: jarrodH on September 07, 2009, 06:27:09 PM
Quote from: jarrodH on September 07, 2009, 12:42:34 PM
id be interested in a rs, or the rs pro depending on the price ..
damn. that was sapposed to be a pm..lol
"I remember when I first learned to use a computer." -JH
Blake
Hey, Guys.
Just saw this on RCTech from a club who has tried precisely what we are trying this indoor season and what WCICS is trying to sort out. Interesting thoughts here:
_________
There is no equal way to race 4 cell and lipo. The motor combo or wt combos do not work well and the corner speed vrs the accel points are so different it is a very hard battle.
We started testing early this year running 3 cell nimmh and single lipo.... Logically we run a 6 cell or 2 cell lipo in a sedan and wt equal we all have agreed they Are equal on the track. Well long story short 3 cell nimmh and single lipo are exactly that equal... And very easy to balance 3 cells in a tbar car so no reason to feel you need to upgrade a chassis just lop a cell off rebalance and have all the gains of lipo. Lower tire wear and all.
here are a couple vids from our 12th stock 17.5 mixed lipo and 3 cell nimmh. Club size track 36 x 60.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFyOVqN7oqI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKjS5Ii1yBo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NB7q3NQb9k
that track was pretty small and looks like a bottom end motor setup
Very interesting. That track definitely looks small!
If the NiMH folks want to run 3-cell, and at the LiPo weight limit (730g), then I'm all for it!
Also, for what it's worth, I've seen other clubs comment that they are getting their 1s LiPo cars at 730g within 0.1s per lap of the 4-cell NiMH cars at 880g. I can see where the big difference could be in braking points and corner speed though....
We'll see how it goes!
Blake
Hi all,
The first night of indoor racing will be Saturday, October 24.
Please arrive at the Boys and Girls club at 3:30PM so that you'll have time to get your pit area setup before we build the track at 4PM.
*** First night note
We'll be holding an extended open practice session on the first night. Practice should be open from 5PM to 7PM, and then we'll run two qualifiers and the mains. This will give everyone extra time to figure out how to drive on carpet again. It will also give the newcomers a chance to run their first-ever carpet laps. Subsequent race nights will follow the usual 3-qualifiers and a main program.
Blake
Quote from: RC51 on September 10, 2009, 03:17:25 PM
upgrade a chassis
upgrade to t-bar...LOL, i think he meant downgrade.
have fun indoors guys, this is painfull to be missing, especially with BL+LiPo. I was also planning on a bunch of wins this year too.
funny to think about indoor when it is still 40+ degrees out! lawl.
kawh, kawh.
Jody
i have to miss the first weekend
Traction Wash for 2009/2010 winter season
Hi all,
In an effort to make indoor racing more enjoyable for all, IROCC is going to switch to Jack the Gripper traction wash this year.
No worries if you already have Paragon, we will not kick you out of the club. You may use up any remaining Paragon in your stash, but please don't buy any new cans (unless it is for next summer).
Jack the Gripper is easily the most popular traction wash in North America these days. Yes, it's likely just as harmful as Paragon, but it has no real smell, and it is much more widely accepted as being "easier on the nose" than Paragon.
IROCC will have about 32 bottles of Jack the Gripper for sale, and the price will be very similar to Paragon pricing.
Blake
are we racing sat 31 halloween
"are we racing sat 31 halloween"
Unfortunately, I won't be.
Quote from: gotnitro on October 16, 2009, 12:11:45 AM
are we racing sat 31 halloween
A bit of a pain that Halloween is Saturday this year.... I just found out that I will be out of town for work that week, so I can't make it on Halloween anyway.
I say we take a vote while we're racing on the first night. If there are enough racers that can/will race on Halloween night, then we can go for it.
Blake
That night is uaually not a good night for the parents with kids.
Will we be checking weights?
Quote1s LiPo cars at 730g NiMH cars at 880g.
if we need weights will there be any for sale?
Yeah, we'll have the scale there to make sure everyone is within reason. We won't kick you out of the club if you run light for the first night or two though. Craig likely still has the club collection of 10 pounds of lead weights.
Blake
Hi all,
Just a reminder that tomorrow night is the first indoor race.
Try and be there around 3:30PM so that you can get your pit setup
Track setup is at 4PM
Practice will run from 5PM - 7PM
Q1 at 7PM, Q2 at 8PM, Mains at 9PM
Out the door by 10:30PM
Boys and Girls Club, 1240 Yates Street
*** Bring an extension cord, a table, and a chair
See ya all tomorrow!
Blake
I can't make it as I will be in vancouver.
john
Gents
Have a good time tonight. I'm a little jealous not being able to be there
shoot, i better get to work..lol