MRT got back to me regarding their personal transponders. Here is their reply-
Thank you for your enquiry. You can purchase transponders
without sending in AMB transponders to be cloned, if you
order either the PTX R9981 or R9980 (tab case or no tabs)
they are supplied with a 'new' custom ID number which is
like buying a new PT. With the 'custom ID' PTX you plug
it in and use it exactly the same as a normal personal.
There are an additional 20 alternative stored numbers
that can be selected, the number the transponder is set
to when you receive it is written on the supplied sheet.
The price for 10 standard tab base (R9981) transponders
is £36.76 each (inc 5% 10+ quantity discount). Ordering
online is at www.rclaps.com with payment by PayPal or
by credit/debit card.
If you are interested in ordering a personal transponder, please reply on this thread. I will talk again on Saturday night regarding these. At the current exchange rate, they would cost $63.42/unit plus shipping and taxes.
I am guessing they will come in under $75.
In for one.
Please put me down for one with tabs.
Regards,
Nick
Darryl
I'm in for one w/tabs and at this time I would like to thank you and barb for the wonderful hostess gift. Barb can't stop talking about it and thank you for the recipes.
im in for one thanx
So far-
Matt M.
Jamie
Doug
Ross
Nick N.
John
I am going to order next week, so I will confirm with other people Saturday night. But keep them coming.
I am in for 1
Thanks Neil.
jeesh guys just one who will be running 2 cars next summer.
1 with tabs please
Is there a chance that these MRT transponders may end up "overlapping" with existing AMB transponders?
I mean, how does MRT guarantee that they don't sell a transponder with the exact same number as an AMB transponder? Did AMB sell some of the number space? Or, is MRT going against AMB's wishes and possibly conflicting with existing AMB personal transponder numbers already on the market?
I have done NO research on this, but I am kind of curious....
I'm guess that MRT is re-using AMB numbers, and the "work around" (when a conflict is found at the track between two racers) is to have one racer try another number in his/her MRT unit.
Anyone know for sure?
FYI: There are technically 10 million unique numbers in AMB's set, so maybe the likelihood of conflict is too small to care about.
Thanks,
Blake
I believe there are some reserved numbers that could not be transponder numbers in the AMB system. I seem to recall that leading zeroes weren't pemitted, among other restrictions.
So, if that were the case, it'd be only 9 million possible numbers, but I believe it's actually under 8 million possible numbers.
I'm not sure if that's a protocol issue, or just numbers AMB won't generate. Recall too that there will undoubtably be check-digits and the like to make it more difficult for people like MRT to come up with new numbers (in the same way it is difficult to invent a new credit card number). This scheme would further restrict the possible range.
My understanding is that MRT does not have permission from AMB to do any of this, but my knowledge of the MRT saga is quite dated. I can't get into much more details due to a NDA. . .
New list-
Team Fantetti-3
Neil-1
John- 1
Matt M- 1
Danny- 1
Ross- 1
Nick N- 1
Jamie- 1
Doug- 1
Anybody else, Shane?
In answer to Blake's questions, I found this on MRT's FAQ's page.
PTX ID Numbers
The PTX is available as individually numbered transponders(due to the AMB system having 'coded' ID numbers we cannotproduce new numbers, ID numbers are not guaranteed unique)the ID number of each transponder can be changed by use ofa 'setup' button (20 alternative ID numbers are available).Each individually numbered transponder has its 'custom' ID number written on the supplied instruction sheet with the20 alternative numbers also listed as two sets of 10 ID's.
YES one for me
When I order transponders in the past from MRT, the transponders all had the same 20 codes on them, except for the Custom number, which was cloned from AMB's that I have already sent them in the past.
If you just order a transponder without having a AMB cloned, there is a good chance you will have problems with multiple people trying to use the same transponder code.
If anyone wants to see the manual, and or play with one, let me know I can come by the boys and girls, and let everyone check it out.
Shawn.
After doing a LITTLE research, I found this:
http://www.rctech.net/forum/attachments/electric-road/286879d1195650576-stealth-pt-new-ptx-personal-transponder-ptx-iii.jpg
That picture shows a list of 20 numbers. Presumably, MRT uses these exact 20 numbers on ALL the transponders they build. Can someone (Matt S? Shawn? Tom?) confirm this? I would love to know if every single MRT transponder comes programmed with the exact same set of 20 numbers, or if each transponder has a unique set of 20 numbers.
MRT units can also come with a 21st number programmed in. If you send in an existing AMB unit then you will know that 21st number will be unique. However, if you don't own a AMB unit, then you *hope* MRT is somehow properly giving out unique numbers in that 21st slot....
Blake
To all those people wanting transponders, please read Blake's last post and think about it. There could be a problem with duplicate numbers, as earlier stated, since it only appears there are 20 numbers to work with. It is completely up to you guys if you want these transponders. The other option is AMB transponders, but if you look on their site, they are advertising a new model but not to be released until the Spring of 2010. They are cheaper than the current version(if pre ordered) which most of us have but it is the wait period.
As I said, it is up to those who want them as to whether I order them or not. I am more than happy to order them and front the financing, but I don't want to be blamed if we have a problem.
We can figure something out on Saturday.
Thanks for the heads up guys, it appears it's not quite as clear cut a choice as we had hoped.
I didn't mean to scare anyone off; especially since I don't know the real answers yet.
20 unique numbers among the club of IROCC is probably OK right now, since 75% of the club already own their own truly unique AMB number. However, as time goes by, and new members come along, and want the cheapest possible personal transponder... the likelihood of conflicts on race-day goes up as each of the 20 preset numbers is "spoken for".
Blake
As I indicated earlier, it is challenging to invent numbers that work with the AMBrc system. This is why you must send your transponder in to get "cloned," rather than just sending them your number to be issued a replacement.
MRT used to have a policy of only ever issuing replacement transponders to those who sent in a unit to be cloned, and only with the cloned number. This would in principle prevent the issue that people here are concerned about, provided those who had their units cloned kept them.
Once people started re-selling their cloned transponders, this opened up Pandora's box, and for the first time the possibility of duplicate transponders arose.
I suppose MRT has seen the market opportunity in supplying transponders with the option of a number other than what was originally purchased from AMBrc. This is likely due to them cloning 20 that they purchased themselves, or 20 transponders they didn't receive payment for, or similar. I doubt they've broken AMB's encoding scheme, or else there would be no need for them to offer this adjustable solution in this way. They might need to recruit DVD John or someone like that. On 2nd thought, they probably waited 'till they saw numbers that ended in 01 - 20 from people that had sent theirs in to clone, then had a full set of public transponder numbers to program in.
Just owning an MRT transponder in the first place is ethically questionable, as they have clearly infringed on AMB's rights. This process of issuing transponders to those that are not just replacing their faulty units or getting a duplicate unit is even more questionable. I'd be surprised if there is anyting at all unique about the pre-loaded transponders that people are discussing here.
We'll just end up with a configuration issue. We'll need to program a set of club transponders into the computer, being the transponder numbers available in the MRT units. Then, users of these transponders will need to adjust their number in the same way we look at the public transponders that are assigned to us now.
That is, if the club as a whole is interested in legitimising MRT. Personally, I'm against doing so on ethical grounds in this fashion, although I have few qualms about people just duplicating their original AMBrc number.
Quote from: Tom on December 17, 2009, 07:32:56 PM
We'll just end up with a configuration issue. We'll need to program a set of club transponders into the computer, being the transponder numbers available in the MRT units. Then, users of these transponders will need to adjust their number in the same way we look at the public transponders that are assigned to us now.
I thought of that too. But won't that mean our actual handout transponders will no longer be recognized?
Blake
I went to mrt's web site it said each one has its own custom code. Plus 20 other options if it conflicts with amb transponders.Thats as long as our system is digital,the analog only have 20 numbers and digital has 10 million.
I have sent off a few questions to MRT to try and help make some decisions.
Some questions have been put forth within our club regarding your transponders.
When you say a "new" custom ID, does that mean if I were to purchase more than 20 transponders, would there be any repetition in the numbers? What about the 20 alternative numbers, are they the same in each transponder? What is the total number of numbers you are drawing from to get your custom ID numbers?
Hopefully I will get a reply tomorrow.
Quote from: lightning on December 17, 2009, 07:45:42 PM
I went to mrt's web site it said each one has its own custom code. Plus 20 other options if it conflicts with amb transponders.Thats as long as our system is digital,the analog only have 20 numbers and digital has 10 million.
Gord, the number of digital numbers you quote is incorrect. See my previous post on this topic. It is true the AMB system 20 (the analogue version you're referring to) had only 20. The AMBrc system has many restrictions on the numbers available eliminating many million possibilities, hence MRT's difficulties in inventing valid AMBrc numbers.
Quote from: Tom on December 17, 2009, 09:27:10 PM
Gord,
Sorry lightning, I mistook your handle for Gord's. It can be difficult to figure out who's who when so few people use their names.
the 20 number that MRT place on there PT are AMBc are number that Terry from MRT has purchased from AMBc. the only way one will have a conflict with one or more if people running the same number is that if more than 20 are running the MRT untis. In other words no other AMBc transponders that anyone has purchase will have the same number as the MRT units.
I would hope that if there were two Transponders using the same number that the AMB one would have rights to the number since you can't change them
Quote from: cyrrus on December 17, 2009, 10:25:19 PM
the only way one will have a conflict with one or more if people running the same number is that if more than 20 are running the MRT untis
That's true Andrew, but we don't want to get in a situation where we have 30 MRT owners, and only 20 numbers to share around between them. It'd be a big pain from a race organizer perspective, because we'd have to constantly tell racers which of the 20 preset numbers to use on that given day.
Blake
Get an AMBrc for your first transponder. Then send it to get clonded. Once its cloned, all you then have to do is order the "Custom" unit, and they already have your # on file, so you dont have to send the AMB away again.
We have all spent hundreds (if not thousands) on RC gear. Is another $30 going to break the bank? This is a big can of worms that can easily be avoided.
Shawn.
New AMB transponders
http://www.mylaps.com/index.php/us_eng/Websites/B2C/rc/products
If you look at the MyLaps site, the transponders they are showing are the new style. The way I read it, these units will not be available till the Spring. They are cheaper than the units most of us run, which makes them very inviting and actually they are a comparable price to the MRT. Competition does wonders in the world of commerce.
I would rather see members get these units but then we would be waiting till later in the season. I believe AMB will also clone these new units.
Maybe we should look into these units a little further.
Here is the reply from MRT regarding my questions.
When you say a "new" custom ID, does that mean if I were to purchase more than 20 transponders, would there be any repetition in the numbers?
The numbers supplied are AMBrc system numbers, you would
not have a repetition the same as when you buy personal
transponders from AMB.
What about the 20 alternative numbers, are they the same in each transponder?
The 20 alternative ID numbers are
standard 'generic' numbers, 2 sets of 10 numbers as when
using rechargeable AMBrc transponders there are two sets
of 10 numbers ending with the last digit 1 thru to 0.
The alterntive numbers would be the same in all the PTX
transponders you order.
What is the total number of numbers you are drawing from to get your custom ID numbers?
This question was not answered.
So the way I read this:
The transponders would all have different Custom ID but the alternative numbers would be the same on all the transponders ordered. I don't understand what is meant that AMB transponders could have duplicate numbers, I was under the impressin that all AMB transponders have different ID numbers.
Again it comes down to preference and availability, I guess.
MRT- 38.70GBP- aproximately $65Can+shipping
Delivery in the New Year
AMB RC2- $105US+shipping, probably less 10% for bulk order(current model)
Delivery in the New Year
AMB RC4- $65US+shipping(pre-order price), as long as supply lasts.
Delivery end of March or into April??
Your choice, we will talk about it at racing tonite.
See you all there. And for those that aren't there, have a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
Quote from: dajracer on December 19, 2009, 02:01:42 PM
AMB RC2- $105US+shipping, probably less 10% for bulk order(current model)
http://www.nexusracing.com/product_info.php?products_id=362 (http://www.nexusracing.com/product_info.php?products_id=362) $
99.95 + shipping about $25.00 I think. the other from RClaps will be UPS shipping. And they more then 20 in stock now.