OK, I know that I have brought this up in past years but after reading this thread I think it need to be brought up again.
http://www.rctech.net/forum/canadian-r-c-scene/762893-wcics-round-3-prcc-penticton-november-8th-10th-2013-a.html
From what I get out of this is at this race they are only going to allow ROAR approved batteries. So my point is if it is being enforced at this race then all races in the series should do the same to make it fair. I personally do not agree with this but fair is fair. I also guess this means only ROAR approved motors as well.
If battery failure is a concern then more safety measures need to be taken as I feel any hard case lipo battery is more likely to fail due to a short in the wiring or a speed controller being impacted causing the wire post to contact each other. So this would mean a couple of sand buckets and a couple pair of welding glove to safely put a car in bucket and cover it with sand.
Neil.
I would expect the rules to be followed at every event, but im pretty sure its up the race director how far to push.
there is no way we could check every single battery against the roar list on the limited tech time we have. unless we simply go by the sticker, which is bs, cause i have turnigy packs that are approved, but dont ship with stickers for whatever reason.
Hi all,
Here is the rule from the WCICS rulebook:
Batteries: With the exception of Tamiya Mini, all batteries must be ROAR approved and display either the ROAR approval tape, or if they pre-date the tape, be on the ROAR approved list. Mini batteries must meet the specifications listed in the Tamiya Mini rules.
As Nick pointed out, we certainly won't have the time to tech all batteries that go through the tech table. But the rule is there (for all races) and should be adhered to. If anyone is stuck with a non-approved pack, let me know. I have some spares that I could lend for the event.
ESCs and Motors are similar:
ESC: ESC's in non-timing classes (TC Stock, Touring GT/CTA) must be on the ROAR approved list as of the date of the race and must display the appropriate non-timing indication marker (LED, etc). If the ESC pre-dates the ROAR approval process, and/or is not capable of boost/timing advance, it is acceptable for the non-timing classes.
Motor: Stock/spec class motors must be on the ROAR approved list as of the date of the race.
Blake
Thanks for clearing that up as I was told different the last couple of years, now I know what I am expected to comply with.
Neil.
Man looks like I am not able to race any WCICS race this year cause of a budget. Coming to terms with it, and thanks to those that are willing to lend me old ROAR packs to race. Does anyone know if the battle of the clubs has a battery rule like this or where I can find the COR or NRC rules for it? Thanks
glenn, Ill be picking up a few new batteries for the big race and you are free to use my old ones if you need roar packs.
if anyone got stuck with a d3.5 17.5 motor as their only motor, i have a reedy 17.5, tekin gen2 17.5 and speed passion 17.5 I could sell for pretty cheap within the club. dont not come cause you think it will be expensive, im sure everyone has enough spare frack to keep everyone legal and having fun.
I know my 12scale packs are a season old and are not roar approved so I may need to go on that battery list as well. I checked my integy 7.4 packs and they are approve by roar so it would just be the 12scale packs that I would need.
On a funny note I do have some roar approved buckets of sand.lol
Hey all,
Yeah, it's a tough situation. The non-ROAR packs are *likely* completely safe and also likely offer no performance advantage over ROAR packs. But, WCICS (and basically every other larger race in North America) tend to use the blanket "batteries/motors/escs must be ROAR approved" rule. And the reason for this is pretty simple: Each individual race or series would have no hope at validating the safety and performance of every battery on the market. So, they take the easy route, and follow the list published by ROAR.
Anyway, that's the situation. As mentioned before, I can lend up to 4x 1s packs, and 2x 2s packs to people that need them for the big race (or other WCICS races).
Blake
Another note: D3.5 motors are ROAR legal again (this was announced months ago). So, if you have one of those motors, you can run them in the WCICS events all season.
Blake
Is the new 7000 90c crc battry approved. i can not find it on the roar list.
I am having trouble figuring out if my lrp x20 modified 10.5 is legal. I assume Because i cant find it on the list its not legal.
LRP50643 X20 10.5T. Thats a good question if its legal for blinky wgt but dont see a problem. That would be stupid to have a stock spec 10.5 and mod 10.5 heh.
As for battery.... Not sure but sucks roar expects compliance and takes their sweet ass time on the approval process.
I appreciate everyone offering batteries etc. and thank you. I think I am going to have to pull out of the Penticton race. I tried my batteries from last year and they suck. So that's why I got new ones. Trying to save some cash didn't even think about the roar thing. So with that I am gonna pull out of the WCICS Penticton race cause I don't feel like spending hundreds and just be a rolling chicane. Sorry to those that were going I didn't mean to let ya down. But if ya don't agree with something that in all honesty is fair I suppose. Then stop going and save your money. Thanks again all.
I hate it when the wife is right telling me to stay off the Internet lol.
For anyone that needs Batteries for Penticton I have 4x 6400 65C IP's (1s). They are from last years Speedweekend...
For 1/12 on our speedweekend, are we going to hold the kids to the rules too? I will have to double check, but I think camerons batteries are non-roar. (but are hardcased).
Shawn.
Quote from: Shawn68z on October 31, 2013, 11:00:46 PM
For 1/12 on our speedweekend, are we going to hold the kids to the rules too? I will have to double check, but I think camerons batteries are non-roar. (but are hardcased).
Shawn.
I would like to think that since it is a safety rule it should apply to all ( especially since I just bought 2 one cell batteries to comply with the rules). Don't get me wrong, I am all for promoting new and young racers but this is not a club race and the rules are being enforced this year.
Quote from: Shawn68z on October 31, 2013, 11:00:46 PM
For anyone that needs Batteries for Penticton I have 4x 6400 65C IP's (1s). They are from last years Speedweekend...
For 1/12 on our speedweekend, are we going to hold the kids to the rules too? I will have to double check, but I think camerons batteries are non-roar. (but are hardcased).
Shawn.
I have some extra 1 cell roar approved if you need it for the Speed Weekend
Quote from: cheifman on October 31, 2013, 10:31:56 AM
I am having trouble figuring out if my lrp x20 modified 10.5 is legal. I assume Because i cant find it on the list its not legal.
Hey Dan,
If it's the part number that Nick quoted, it looks like it's on the list here:
http://www.roarracing.com/?page_id=251
Blake
Quote from: BCbud on October 31, 2013, 11:40:07 PM
Quote from: Shawn68z on October 31, 2013, 11:00:46 PM
For 1/12 on our speedweekend, are we going to hold the kids to the rules too? I will have to double check, but I think camerons batteries are non-roar. (but are hardcased).
Shawn.
I would like to think that since it is a safety rule it should apply to all ( especially since I just bought 2 one cell batteries to comply with the rules). Don't get me wrong, I am all for promoting new and young racers but this is not a club race and the rules are being enforced this year.
Hey Shawn,
Yeah, Neil is correct - it applies to everyone. Let me know if you need to borrow a pack.
Blake
Quote from: cheifman on October 31, 2013, 10:15:10 AM
Is the new 7000 90c crc battry approved. i can not find it on the roar list.
Hey Dan,
Does it have the ROAR Approved tape on the battery? If so, I think you're fine.
Blake
Quote from: Blake on November 01, 2013, 02:10:33 AM
Quote from: BCbud on October 31, 2013, 11:40:07 PM
Quote from: Shawn68z on October 31, 2013, 11:00:46 PM
For 1/12 on our speedweekend, are we going to hold the kids to the rules too? I will have to double check, but I think camerons batteries are non-roar. (but are hardcased).
Shawn.
I would like to think that since it is a safety rule it should apply to all ( especially since I just bought 2 one cell batteries to comply with the rules). Don't get me wrong, I am all for promoting new and young racers but this is not a club race and the rules are being enforced this year.
Hey Shawn,
Yeah, Neil is correct - it applies to everyone. Let me know if you need to borrow a pack.
Blake
Cameron and I will be in good shape. I just wont have extra batteries to loan out to people during Speedweekend.
Shawn.
Alright.. Did some re-wiring on Cameron's car, so he shouldn't have anymore plugs popping out... And now since he is running the 4mm plugs instead of the 3.5mm plugs, his batteries are now ROAR approved 6400Mah 80C, instead of those cheapo but hard cased 5000Mah 45C batteries...From what I could tell, his car definitely needed more punch. ::)
Can we not just have some roar approved tape made up? Cant be that difficult. I guess ill just have to see if anyone catches on and if anyone really cares whats going on in the C main.
Me too Doug c main lol
Im not a big advocate of roar obviously but it is what it is unfortunately. to attract as many racers as we do at the big event we need to adhere to certain universal standards. I doubt anyone really will care but its really not a big deal to comply.
there are many options for less expensive lipos out there. team great hobbies carries 99c 2s lipos that are roar legal for under $100. im sure they have single cells as well. they also carry gens ace. though id probably look back at the smc cells at this price..
sadly the days of $25 batteries are OVER with the shipping rules being what they are. we are fortunate to have as much time as we do to prepare though. many months is plenty of time to fish together $50 for a new battery if anyone is not in compliance.
http://www.begoracing.com/shop/index.php?route=product/category&path=42_77
im gonna be picking up some of these cells..
Definitely dont need to spend $100 for a decent battery to run in stock. Blake loaned me his revtech at speed weekend and there was no difference in stock back to back with my turnigy. I would parallel that with a gens ace which you can get from great hobbies now.
mod now... well orca says my turnigy sags to 6.6 volts in my 4.5 tc lol.. thats... a bit dangerous lol.
ROAR batteries are pretty cheap. Under $40 for a ROAR 1S cell, around $60 for a 2S.... Remember not to long ago paying $50-60 per pack, and they only lasted a month! Thankfully Lipo saved electric racing.
As for ROAR motors, yes they are more expensive then the Hobby king Knock offs, but considering I have had my 13.5 for 3 years, and my 10.5 for 5 years, they have been really cheap to run! Consider an older brushed motor at $60, then replacing springs and brushes all the time. Not to mention a new comm at $30-40.
Electric racing has never been so cheap.
I don't think its the cost that is the problem with the roar rules. Its the fact that lots of people went out bought new stuff to follow are new club rules. Only to find out after the fact the club is enforcing the roar rules at speed weekend witch in the last two years I have attended we have not. I purchased a battery that works well for club racing and intended to buy a second for my wgt . But with the lack of wgt cars at the club level I am not about to fork out another 40 to 100 dollars for a battery for one weekend to run my wgt. Plus I need to buy a roar legal battery for my 12 scale. So now for me to run speed weekend I need to buy two batteries just for one weekend as I only run the winter. I know lots will offer batteries to run, but for me the cost of the batteries is not the problem its the fact I have to spend the money.
Quote from: cheifman on November 15, 2013, 09:03:20 AM
I don't think its the cost that is the problem with the roar rules. Its the fact that lots of people went out bought new stuff to follow are new club rules. Only to find out after the fact the club is enforcing the roar rules at speed weekend witch in the last two years I have attended we have not. I purchased a battery that works well for club racing and intended to buy a second for my wgt . But with the lack of wgt cars at the club level I am not about to fork out another 40 to 100 dollars for a battery for one weekend to run my wgt. Plus I need to buy a roar legal battery for my 12 scale. So now for me to run speed weekend I need to buy two batteries just for one weekend as I only run the winter. I know lots will offer batteries to run, but for me the cost of the batteries is not the problem its the fact I have to spend the money.
Could you please clarify "New Club Rules" with regards to batteries? We have all known WCICS uses ROAR rules, but when it came to rule enforcement we only checked "the basics". there is no time to check everyones battery, motor and ESC. But we have assumed that the racers will police themselves to make sure they are running legal. (After all who would want to get DQ'ed if your caught. )
Honestly I don't understand why anyone would buy Non-ROAR batteries, unless you know you are only going club-level race. I purchased IP 6400 70C ROAR batteries landed for $44 last year. so for $10 per battery you can be legal everywhere. Buy 2 or 3, and you can easily run your 1/12 and WGT all year, and if you don't cycle them to hard, and don't expect to be at the front, you can easily get acouple of years racing out of them. Just make sure they are put back to the storage voltage, and maybe cycle every couple of months. (and never leave them fully charged). You said it wasn't a money issue, but by spending just acouple of dollars more, the entire battery issue goes away.
The ironic thing is the same guy that thinks we should
enforce the ROAR Battery rule is the same guy that was pissed off about having to run ROAR motors. And now that _HE_ has ROAR approved batteries, thinks everyone else should too. (see below) My how the tables have turned...
Quote from: BCbud on October 31, 2013, 11:40:07 PM
I would like to think that since it is a safety rule it should apply to all ( especially since I just bought 2 one cell batteries to comply with the rules). Don't get me wrong, I am all for promoting new and young racers but this is not a club race and the rules are being enforced this year.
And about the motors (WCICS Rules thread) http://www.irocc.ca/index.php?topic=4423.msg32236#msg32236
Gentlemen I think that the thread is starting to get out of hand. We all know that if we are just club racing we don't police but if we are doing a winter/summer race we have to follow ROAR rules because of the other racers, so lets not point fingers and have club members at each others throats. No pokey finger please.
Quote from: Shawn68z on November 15, 2013, 01:00:32 PM
Quote from: cheifman on November 15, 2013, 09:03:20 AM
I don't think its the cost that is the problem with the roar rules. Its the fact that lots of people went out bought new stuff to follow are new club rules. Only to find out after the fact the club is enforcing the roar rules at speed weekend witch in the last two years I have attended we have not. I purchased a battery that works well for club racing and intended to buy a second for my wgt . But with the lack of wgt cars at the club level I am not about to fork out another 40 to 100 dollars for a battery for one weekend to run my wgt. Plus I need to buy a roar legal battery for my 12 scale. So now for me to run speed weekend I need to buy two batteries just for one weekend as I only run the winter. I know lots will offer batteries to run, but for me the cost of the batteries is not the problem its the fact I have to spend the money.
Could you please clarify "New Club Rules" with regards to batteries? We have all known WCICS uses ROAR rules, but when it came to rule enforcement we only checked "the basics". there is no time to check everyones battery, motor and ESC. But we have assumed that the racers will police themselves to make sure they are running legal. (After all who would want to get DQ'ed if your caught. )
Honestly I don't understand why anyone would buy Non-ROAR batteries, unless you know you are only going club-level race. I purchased IP 6400 70C ROAR batteries landed for $44 last year. so for $10 per battery you can be legal everywhere. Buy 2 or 3, and you can easily run your 1/12 and WGT all year, and if you don't cycle them to hard, and don't expect to be at the front, you can easily get acouple of years racing out of them. Just make sure they are put back to the storage voltage, and maybe cycle every couple of months. (and never leave them fully charged). You said it wasn't a money issue, but by spending just acouple of dollars more, the entire battery issue goes away.
The ironic thing is the same guy that thinks we should enforce the ROAR Battery rule is the same guy that was pissed off about having to run ROAR motors. And now that _HE_ has ROAR approved batteries, thinks everyone else should too. (see below) My how the tables have turned...
Quote from: BCbud on October 31, 2013, 11:40:07 PM
I would like to think that since it is a safety rule it should apply to all ( especially since I just bought 2 one cell batteries to comply with the rules). Don't get me wrong, I am all for promoting new and young racers but this is not a club race and the rules are being enforced this year.
And about the motors (WCICS Rules thread) http://www.irocc.ca/index.php?topic=4423.msg32236#msg32236
PM sent.
Quote from: Falcon on November 15, 2013, 01:48:17 PM
Gentlemen I think that the thread is starting to get out of hand. We all know that if we are just club racing we don't police but if we are doing a winter/summer race we have to follow ROAR rules because of the other racers, so lets not point fingers and have club members at each others throats. No pokey finger please.
Rest assured I wont say anything on these forums that I wont say in person. Ever since last year when they outlawed the D3.5, the rules have become inconsistently applied (this includes ROAR). One day a motor legal, then not... Then Legal... For a short time, then the D3.5 13.5 motor becomes illegal at some venues, which has never been questioned before.
Fortunately by switching to the 13.5, irocc has side stepped the 17.5 legality issue for 1/12 scale. When it comes to batteries, Non-ROAR batteries offer _NO_ advantage over ROAR batteries, NONE. That's why I think its a stupid rule. Check the voltage, and its a hardcase.. Good to go. If anyone thinks a ROAR sticker is going to make a battery safer, then they have been hanging out with Rob Ford to much... ;D
Some Non-Roar motors offer a HUGE advantage (Novak Outlaw comes to mind) in performance and rightfully not be allowed to race. Period.
Same goes for Non-Roar ESC's too. If they havnt been tested, and approved, how does anyone know if there firmware is actually Blinky? It could offer another large advantage.
So basicly what I am saying is, IROCC needs to use a common sense approach when it comes to application of the rules. When someones car is not "within" the rules, and it doesn't have a performance advantage because of it, then I think it should be allowed.
Shawn.
Just for everyones knowledge. After reading Neils PM, I have apologized for using the word "pissed" as I admit was overboard of the situation. I would like to retract the following statement
" The ironic thing is the same guy that thinks we should enforce the ROAR Battery rule is the same guy that was pissed off about having to run ROAR motors. And now that _HE_ has ROAR approved batteries, thinks everyone else should too. (see below) My how the tables have turned... "
And substitute it with this
" The ironic thing is the same guy that thinks we should enforce the ROAR Battery rule is the same guy that made a Stink about having to run ROAR motors. And now that _HE_ has ROAR approved batteries, thinks everyone else should too. (see below) My how the tables have turned...
This post was locked by me at the behest of an exec member.
Blake/Darryl/whomever is running IROCC can clean up the thread as they deem best.
Hey all,
1. Doug: Thanks for sparking this thread again in classic Doug fashion. Not sure what we'd do without you.
2. Neil: Thanks for using a PM.
3. WCICS (and most other recognized races and series in North America) have been using ROAR approval lists for batteries, motors, and ESCs for years. There is nothing new this year. The topic just didn't come up last year, and I'm sure there were a lot of non-ROAR packs being raced at various WCICS events. Did it cause unfair advantages? No, of course not.
4. ROAR gets a lot of flak from us armchair quarterbacks. What sanctioning body or government doesn't? But trust me, without ROAR, the competitive aspect of our hobby would not work. Unless you're ready to fill their shoes, be thankful we have them. In this rapidly changing R/C landscape (technologically), I don't envy them.
Please try to find a ROAR battery for our race. If you are stuck, just ask. I still have three 1s and two 2s batteries I can lend out. If you want to continue to save a few bucks on club racing batteries in the future, that is no problem, but make arrangements to borrow a ROAR pack or two for the big events.
Blake