Bad Battery Buzz

[RC51]

Has anyone formally addressed our highly defective cells everyone keeps complaining about? In the past with other brands I have had money refunded or cells replaced. There is no reason why the truckload we bought shouldn't be treated the same.

[SgRddY]

i bought 2 packs, one pack has one really bad cell and the other pack has 2.

[haddow]

I went through the three packs I have and 1 pack is good and the other two had to be taken apart and recombined into one pack. I had 4 dead cells between the two packs. I thought I had an ESC going or bad motors becasue they would work ok for 2-3 minutes then it would feel like the motor overheated etc but it ended up that a couple of cells in each pack are at 0.5 Volts while the others are still at 1.1

I will be bowing out of electric next weekend as the the recombined pack I made still isnt that good so that leaves me with one battery, not enough to continue in electric.

I'll stick to nitro rather than purchase more batteries.

bring back 2400's those were the last good NiMH cells made in my opinion.

Also for the record my cells were like this from day one. I phoned Blake the very first night I assembled the packs and reported that after cycling the batteries once they appeared to NOT BE MATCHED so mine have been like this since day one.

[RC51]

Hey.

Yep. I think we've all had similar stories right out of the box - I noticed this first with my 4-cell packs the second weekend. It's like I had Chiclets for bearings or something. At the 6 min mark the pack felt like it completely dumped. I guess the question is whether or not the distributor has been made aware and what the remedial action will be if any. They're simply too expensive to dismiss the issue.

Have the exec chatted about this and approached the rep?

Phil

[korgae]

This is the 1st  I have heard of this thread.

If we are not made aware of the problem how can we solve it correctly?

1st things 1st.  IB is the cell manufacturer and SMC is a matcher ( we do not build these cells) All SMC does is enhance and match them the exact same as any other matcher out there.

2nd- SMC does stand behind their product 100%.


Right now IB is the best NMH cell for the racing market, With that said, All cells on the market right now ( EP, IB, GP and any other) have quarks..  They are all pushing the limits and the life-span is the compromise.

IB has found some material issues in past date codes, that can cause the cell to self discharge and lose voltage. ( this is what seems to have happened to Haddow's packs)

Any cell that does self discharge will be replaced by SMC as a courteous to our customers.  This has been well documented on major websites such as RC tech. Simply put we take care of our customers the best we can.

When SMC matches, we weed out any dead cells, but sometimes this can  come out after a 10 or more cycles, the best thing to do is keep some charge in the packs during the week. The instruction sheet provided with the packs states 200 seconds have been put back into each cell after matching and before transit. This is enough for a loose cell. Once the cells are made into packs we suggest 500 or more seconds to  be put back into the pack after the race day to store the pack from week to week. this is the best way to store any IB race pack ( again from any matcher)

One important note. racers always have there voodoo procedures that they have been doing for years to every cell ( dead shorting, charging at low or high crazy amps, etc etc etc ect)  plain and simple this is a thing of the past and if anyone does try to do their voodoo it can now ruin their packs. its a very fine line and the stuff that is coming out now is so advanced it has to be treated only in a certain way.

A good example: would be a F1 team. Say for example, Ferrari creates this 19000 + RPM engine  and all the testing has been done with a 10-30 synthetic motor oil. but when they show up to a race, the team manager says: " what? I have only used 5-30 in my race engines and that is what we will use" The engine blows up and costs them a race. Who's fault is it?

The point I am trying to make ( and it is hard on the internet) is that in todays racing, instructions are their more reason then ever before. in the past they were conservative to cover all bases this has always left room for racers to find better ways to get extra performance.. today they are really there to keep things running right for a long time and ensure the racer has the best possible power with the best possible life span, it is a very line..

Again, SMC will stand behind any faulty cell that you might have. Please make a list of the cell #'s  voltage and IR and SMC will send new cells to replace the faulty ones.

I have told Danny about this thread ( he is the owner of SMC) and will try to make time to answer questions on this forum ( or you can email him directly with any questions) danny@smc-racing.com or myself korgae@smc-racing.com

Thanks

Korgae

[Tom]

bring back 2400's those were the last good NiMH cells made in my opinion.

Huh?  The very first NiMH pack I ever used was a 3000, and it was a Panasonic that was good for maybe 5 runs.

I think you're tlaking about NiCad.  Those were far more reliable, although GP NiMH seemed to hold up for at least part of a season.

As Korgae said, I think many problems are caused by people doing too much to their batteries.  I seem to get pretty good life out of mine, and fairly good performance as well, and all I ever do is charge my batteries immediately before I race, and then race.

However, bad cells do happen from time to time, and although I've never had a defective cell in all the batteries I've ever used that was less than a few years old, I'm sure it could happen.

It is also possible some cells are being damaged during battery assembly.  Who's fault is that?  The manufacturer for making such a fragile product, or the user for destroying it and not following instructions?  I'm sure the manufacturer specifies that you're not to solder the cells, regardless of what the matcher says.

[RC51]

Thanks for the reply, Korgae.

We talk about this at great length on weekends and many local racers (and others on the mainland) like me follow the instructions provided on the insert and on the SMC website religiously. That is, however, with one exception: After the first week I needed to put 1500 mAh or so in my packs for 6 days storage since 1000 mAh was leading to at least two discharged cells by weeks' end. Over time those cells dropped off more quickly and significantly in their performance each race day. Personally, I baby my cells in that I don't push beyond the recommended charge rate (although some do) and I don't go below the recommended cutoff, and adhere to your recommended regimen.

Many of our club members are either scientists, electricians, mechanics or otherwise inclined to follow the logic of instructions carefully. So, while I appreciate what you are suggesting about aberrant voodoo methods of care, many of the folks here don't fall into that category. I have at least one bad cell in each of my packs and have since the first week.

Later.
P.

[korgae]

. I have at least one bad cell in each of my packs and have since the first week.

Later.
P.

Like Tom stated, it happens.... And it would/could and does happen with all matchers If I would have know, you would be telling the other guys how quick the "warranty" pocess takes or how SMC stands behind the products, rather then adding fuel to the fire:)

email me and we will get you the new cells asap.

[RC51]

Hi there.

I have made frankenpacks as have others, and the old cells have been discarded. I'm not adding fuel to the fire, only exercising my perrogative as a consumer. This is the first and only time it's been raised here by me. Others have been raising this over and over and I'm simply the one raising it here - to ask whether or not the exec have amalgamated the details and approached you.

Thanks for the offer to replace the cells. Again, if someone on the exec has aggregated the info - I believe someone at the track was asking last weekend or the weekend before) - has it been advanced?

P.

[haddow]

Thanks Korgae

We will get together as a group and get some actual numbers regarding the cells. We have been complaining about the cells but not the matcher. Most people in the club understand the distinction between manufacturer and the matcher. So SMC is not being bashed here at all.

The reason you have not yet been contacted is that the grumbling has only now peaked with this thread as most discussion has been limited to small groups at the track on Sundays.

I also know the importance of people following the instructions but I think the number of packs not performing here in a group of racers with quite a bit of experience suggests that stupidity is not at the heart of the problem. I have not seen anyone dead short a pack all season. Like I stated earlier I tested my packs right away. Some would like to say it is my soldering abilities and a select few in our club think that they are the only ones in the world that can solder properly but I also do NOT think that is at the heart of the problem. If the handling was the issue then this would not be the first you heard about it as the average racer would be destroying all of your cells!

Anyway thank you again for supporting IROCC, as I say SMC is not being bashed and the name SMC hasn't really been brought up in this context. Most believe it is just the latest cells in general that are not so great. When I stated mine did not appear to be matched since they were bad right away...well that is exactly whet the evidence supported unfortunately.

Jody

[haddow]

bring back 2400's those were the last good NiMH cells made in my opinion.

Huh?  The very first NiMH pack I ever used was a 3000, and it was a Panasonic that was good for maybe 5 runs.

yes I meant NiCd, allthough as far as good NiMHs the 3300s seemeed to last longer than the 3800 or 4200s (number of raceworthy cycles).

hey, only people that actually race and have used any of this batch of cells are qualified to comment.

[BigDawg]

i have had only one dead cell that i could find it was in 12 scale and as soon as the problem was mentioned i had a replacment cell  from smc through Blake!

[dajracer]

Out of 4 packs, I have been able to salvage 3. As far as dropping the ball on you Korgae, I don't believe that was meant. I know Blake had said he was going to contact you, but I guess he has been too busy because as of Sunday I know he had not done so yet.

[Blake]

Yeah, sorry guys; I did mean to call Korgae last week but I just couldn't find the time during the working hours to do so.  I'm extremely busy these days with many different projects.

I had left it in Kurk's hands to organize a list of bad cells and numbers, and I was to find out where to send them for replacement.  Perhaps Korgae can provide that info to us here:  Is it directly to SMC, or is it to the distributor?

Anyway, as I've mentioned on many different occasions, to many different people at IROCC, SMC guarantees their products 100% and will always replace any substandard product.  I definitely have not done my job in liaising between our club members and SMC so I will try and improve this connection in the future.


Blake

[Grinder]

Part of the problem in collecting numbers is that you need the right equipment to test each individual cell to determine which one is bad.  Some people in the club don't have any way to check their cells so its likely that there are lots out there that people are unaware of the extent or which cell(s) in their packs are bad.  Its also difficult to collect numbers "secretly" without posting it on the web page to get the feedback.  There was enough evidence from multiple cells in many of the people I did talk to to know that there is a major issue with the cells.

Now that the cat is out of the bag please let me know how many bad cells you have.  It took me about two days to properly test my 6 packs of batteries so its going to be a major chore to weed out the bad cells for those who don't have the test equipment.  I'll bring my discharger on Tuesday and Sunday (as usual) and we can try and determine which cells in your packs are bad.  Please make sure the packs are charged and it will take about two hours per pack to get some acurate numbers.