Bad Battery Buzz

[freddie]

Dead short 4200 batteries that have blow up into a million peaces.

I am also just going Nitro this weekend and are we running pan?

[Grinder]

Does anyone have Korage's E-Mail address?  He isn't responding here and Danny is replying to his e-mails either.

[haddow]

click the email button on any post he has made here on this site.

Jody

[Matt S]

i got it

let me find it

[weekend_camper]

under the FYI category:


t-bang currently has a special on batteries as a summer promo.

[Grinder]

I've e-mailed Korgae and Danny again as they haven't bothered to respond to my (or others) e-mails.  It looking like the batteries are a write off since these guys aren't stepping up to the plate....

[Blake]

Hey all,


Danny is working on it for us.  I conversed with him yesterday.  I can't give a timeline just yet unfortunately, but the wheels are in motion.  I can't say for sure just yet, but it looks like SMC will replace all the dead cells that people reported to me over the last three weeks.


Blake

[SgRddY]

blake,

i since then have a couple more dead cells.  am i able to get those replaced also?

thanks,

[Blake]

Ken, I will see what I can do.

Blake

[WhoDoYouThink]

Jody is using a bunch of my DEAD SMC IB 4200 cells in his Pan car as ballast! LOL

As far as the tale of the other DEAD cells, I didn't even bother to add them to the "Official" report, as I figured my first couple of posts on the subject of DEAD and DYING SMC IB 4200's would have been more than enough of a heads up that I too have had SMC IB 4200 battery issues!

IF SMC/IB is only planning on replacing these problematic IB 4200's with more IB 4200's, I for one am not interested in replacing old junk with new junk!

Bring on the LiPos, I've had enough of the "Industry" pushing the limits of old technology, and failing!

[jarrodH]

so nick , are you saying ud rather run your known to be dead packs for the rest of the summer, than run packs which may not be matched aswell asthe new pack you baught at the beggining of the season, but have 6 decent-good cells??

i dont get why you guys are saying you dont want replacement cells even tho you rant on, saying that all your packs are now junk. you rather complain and whine than be able to have decent/raceable packs??

c'mon

just my .02

[haddow]

ummm, where would these decent racebale packs come from?

[WhoDoYouThink]

Jarrod,

I find it funny you didn't mention anything about this to me at practice last night. Apparently you have an issue with what I have to say in regards to My choice as to what I want to do with My batteries!

If you can't understand the point I'm making, let me spell it out for you.

I don't want to rebuild already weak and getting weaker by the week IB 4200 battery packs with one or two new cells in the hopes that miraculously they will come back to life! Believe me, replacing one or two cells in a bad battery pack won't make it able to walk on water!

I've already made up "Frankenpacks" out of all my SMC IB4200s just to be able to come out and play every weekend.
I had 5 packs that I assumed worked, 2 of which were BRAND NEW, now I have only 4 packs that still "sorta" work!
The weak and dying cells that already make up my remaining packs will quickly kill off any advantage a couple of new cells might bring!
Using my discharge tray shows me plain as day which cells are dropping off long before the others.

It's like having a worn out motor in your daily driver.
You can throw valve seals on it and hope to stop some of the smoking,  but just because you put valve seals on the worn out valve guides doesn't mean the motor is going to stop smoking or run much better, or more to the point, it  doesn't change the fact that the motor is still worn out!

Here's another example.
It's kinda like doing a half ass job of building a new motor. Because someone didn't measure everything accurately first off, or they didn't fit new rod and main bolts, or didn't check the clearance of the bearings and the crankshaft, or didn't check the end gap of their piston rings, they only get to drive with it for a short time before something goes wrong and they end up having to pull it out and rebuild it all over again! This time properly and with a lot more care and attention to detail.

Do you get my point about micky mousing battery packs yet?

[jarrodH]

actually i did  ask you why u didnt want to just get the replacement cells at the end of practice but i didnt want to start anything., but i i do see your point.

but a new cell in place of a dead one will make the pack better for the time being.?..no?

[korgae]

Just a  FYI as I have not seen Blake post yet today.

Blake has provided the specs of the batteries and SMC is  currently picking cells out of the current batch.

The current batch from IB is also more stable then any previous batch of the latest version. Danny has been testing these for a few weeks and so far they do not "self discharge" as fast as any of the previous batches.

Believe me when we heard of the problem with the club we tore a strip off of IB. We understand that IB crossed the line with reliability and performance and SMC's reputation is taking a hit for it.

Please keep in mind that the cells really do not stay at SMC to long, they basically get shipped from IB to SMC in a matter of days, via airfreight, raw cells then ship out to matchers that have purchase orders in with SMC for raw cells ( Pro-match, EA, TQ etc etc) basically all the matchers buy the raw cells from us  and they want them as fast as possible. What we keep for stock ( or is left over) starts our own production of SMC matched cells. (  ZAPP, cycle, weed, cycle, weed, Cycle weed Final cycle and finally charge for storage then matching and boxing followed by shipping to the distributors of the world. The total amount of time that any cell really stays in the SMC area is probably no more then 2 weeks. Within this period the cell is charged 4-5 times which keep them fresh.

The market demands fast turn around and the way the manufacture creates the cells their is no way to really stock pile the cells.

When SMC weeds a cell they look for the following:

False peaks
Low voltage
Low runtime
High AIR ( internal resistance)
leaking  and or venting.


This ensures the customer receives a "fresh cell" Which has been what the consumer has demanded for years.

As IB changed the chemistry and raised the bar for overall performance but decreased the robust nature of the cell we are were we are now, asking IB to change back and now offer the consumer a cell that has slightly less voltage and more reliability.

SMC has learned from this as well, and this takes me back to my opening paragraph. Danny is now requesting samples from each production batch that they plan to send to us so Danny can judge the cell in a longer time period.  This gives Danny more insight into each batch and can approve them before the order is completed and shipped. He also have been letting other matchers know what is coming as well for their feed back and opinion. This will create some time gaps that cells will not be available or racers will have to wait, but overall we hope this will improve the overall reliability of the cells.

As mentioned before our policy has been to send out new replacement cells for any cell that has failed from the time span it has taken to get the end user. Good cells don't really go bad..... bad cells go bad....... every cell will deteriorate as they are used, but good cells wont go bad.. So adding a new cell to replace the bad cell will put the pack back in good form. ( it wont be a like a new pack, but it will be better) Basically it is like  a chain link, the chain is only as strong as the weakest link. The cells in the packs that you all have that are still kicking are good cells, and adding a new cell will make the pack run better.

Same as dead shorting, as I mentioned to the racers I had the opportunity to speak to @ Speed-weekend, we have found that this does help and kick starts the dead cells. Over time, dead shorting does start to improve the performance of the pack. Will it increase runtime- Yes a bit- will it increase voltage- yes will it return the pack to the state it was in when it was new?- No.  but overall it will work for a pack that has had issues and make that pack useable.

When I cycled a few of the packs on Speed Weekend, they were in the 380 range @ 35 amps. This is lower then the runtime stated on the label, but it still high enough to compete and is somewhat normal for a pack that is at the mid point of the season In stock and 19 turn. in fact 2 years ago we made runtime in mod with 7 turns when we only have 330 seconds to deal with.... ( O how times change)  We are not going to please the people that expect to have the packs returned to "as new" state but we hope to please the people that were experiencing poor voltage and lack of punch with replacing these cells with new ones.

Going forward, SMC appreciate the business and support you all have given us over the years and we are sorry that these IB cells have wrecked the season for some racers. When it comes right down to it, SMC is built around racing and consumers like yourself and we will take from this and learn from it to continue to offer the best possible product we can.

[/u]