New ROAR Rules

[WhoDoYouThink]

OK. I've bit my lip long enough on this!
I've got one word for you guys:

THINK!

IROCC's success as a Club has been due to our ability to keep things simple, relatively inexpensive, extremely competitive, and most importantly, fun!

I see us on a VERY slippery slope with all this idle speculation of what we should or shouldn't do.
Sure, it's a great idea to get the process rolling, but you must remember, the Executive will do what we see fit for the betterment of the Club in general, not what will benefit the few.

If my Executive vote means anything, I'd propose we run only 3 classes outdoors this year.

Why? Well time constraints is one reason.
We have already seen last year that a few people seemed overly eager to end the race day early, so we certainly can't run another class or two. In my case, i've always shown up early(as have many others!) with the full intention of racing for as long as it takes to get the day in. Seeing as I really don't have any serious family commitments to uphold, my case is different from many other racers. When people show up late or leave early, it puts an unfair extra load on those people who end up doing 90% of the work week in and week out. Some people don't seem to mind, I for one do!

Secondly, we run into the issue of expense.
IROCC has been as successful as we are because we have in the past strived to keep a fairly expensive "Hobby" affordable. Switching classes, battery and speed control technology isn't going to be a cheap and easy thing to do for a good portion of our membership. I don't want to see this turn into a "battery or motor, or tire of the week" deal like last year! We have to make intelligent, well thought though decisions that are advantageous for everyone involved, not just the Club's elite racers. We can't go changing speed controls, or batteries, or motors mid-season. And as far as batteries go, we really need to think long and hard as to which technology is going to be the most durable and give us the most bang(not literally I hope! LOL) for our buck! While it's nice to see ROAR opening up to LiPo, we aren't a ROAR affiliated Club, and we have in the past only used them as a rough guide as to what standards we set out and maintain. If LiMn is a better battery technology, I hope we find out sooner, rather than later!

Personally, I don't want to see the IROCC's bread and butter class, Stock Touring Car, get beaten down. We need to keep the numbers of our most competitive racing class up. Stock racing is what has kept our Club growing and going! Some of us have been around this "Hobby" long enough to have seen first hand what happens when you start Fragmenting your racer base! It's not pretty!
If you need any further example, just look at the lower mainland. They have tens of thousands more people to draw from, but they're lucky to be able to pull 20+ guys together on any given day to race! And of those 20+ guys, they want to have 5,  6 or 7 classes with 4 or 5 guys in each,  if they're lucky, STARTING the race! It's a recipe for disaster, plain and simple!

Here is what I think would be a good balance for a full day of racing.

- Stock 27T, LiPo or LiMn Touring Car.
We're at the point where we need to transition from NiMh, especially after last year's batter issues! I for one never want to go through that again!
Plus stock racing is nowhere near as hard on tires and other drive-line components.

- Pro10 Pan Car.
We seemed to have a great deal of interest in this "trial" class last year, both as far as Club participants went, as well as crowd interest.
Now then, whether or not LiPo/LiMn and brushless is the way to go will need to have some serious discussion. IF we do the brushless method, we better be damn sure we pick ONE system that works! Nothing kills competitive Club racing faster than people always "One Upping" the next guy with the so called latest and greatest!

I think Phil and some others have got the chassis and parts/body/tires sorting figured out pretty well, and we should be able to build a good field of reliable cars.

- Nitro Touring Car
Well this well established class has seen its' ebb and flow over the years, but there is a strong "Core" group that always provide some exciting and competitive racing. Plus, there is no question that Nitro Touring Car is what attracts the fans in to watch!
I don't think there is much that needs to be changed as far as Nitro goes, but I'm open to any sensible ideas.

So there you have it, 3 classes.

Not only does this (hopefully!) ensure we have tons of guys competing in each class, with multiple heats, it will also (hopefully!) ensure we have adequate Corner Marshalling!

These are just my thoughts guys, I'm not pointing fingers at anyone/ any class in particular.
As of yet, nothing is set in stone, but we need to seriously get things sorted out over the next 2 months before Spring comes.

Regards,
Nick

[cyrrus]

Nick,  

well said.  Your point come across great.  I would personally still like to see Nimh stil be an option.  last summer fiasco with the cell,  I wasn't part off.  as I was still using my cell's from the previous summer.  which i used last winter and using this winter.  

I wouuld like to see  stock,  with either lipo,LiMh,  and also Nimh.

class Pro ten sure why not.

I would still like to see a 19turn or whatever.  why not race both pro 10's and 19turn or what ever together.  

Nitro,  you need this as this is the crowd pleazer.  

I would also like to see a club meeting with all member,  that way the Exc can take our input and then they would have a good feel for the club's best intrerest.   One would hope that this would happen  before we head outdoor. like maybe a month or two before.  not a couple of weeks before.

[RC51]

... Or run pro10 as an open class with the Nitro cars. Why not?

[OX]

I'm with you Nick! that sounds like the best plan so far, 3 classes, stock, Pro 10 and Nitro, that supplies an entry class, fast electric class, and of course the crowd favorite Nitro. I would think a driver has a choice to use Nimh batteries if desired since they wouldn't give him/her any advantage over Lipo. It's not like 10th scale Pan is new to IROCC, you were racing those when I first started attending races.

Running Nitro and Pro 10 together .. ha ha ha, make me laugh!  the carnage would sure be crowd pleasing! don't blame me though when my heavy Nitro car obliterates your paper thin Pro 10 car :-)

Dave Ox.

[RC51]

You'd have to catch me, first! LOL

[DekelzMan]

I wouldn't dismiss the idea of running nitro and Pro10 at the same time so quickly, especially if the Scoring Pro software is in fact capable of breaking out the individual classes within the heat. This is common practice in LeMans style racing and in the ALMS in North America. It is the responsibilities of the individual drivers within the individual classes to try and maneuver and respect the others. It may sound difficult but we could try it and see how it works. That way we wouldn't be lengthening the race day and it may bolster the sagging Nitro numbers in the process. As far as the length of the main, we could certainly pull off after our time is up.

[OX]

You could pull off, pit, install fresh batteries and continue racing :-)  

Interesting concept, it would make more sense to me to run Pro-10 and 19T together, I think if would be safer for everyone because the Nitro cars are so unpredictable, especially with drivers like me behind the controls. I agree that the 1:1 sports car racing successfully runs more than one class at a time and that it may work for IROCC, would be an interesting experiment for sure.

Dave Ox.

[Grinder]

If you think driving any class/type of car has any expense try driving a pan car on the same track as a nitro car.  CARnage for sure.  Getting hit by a nitro car would fling that light little pan car off the track like it was a sponge.  Of course it would be cool to see two classes running together.  I know I'll be running the Nitro though if we do that - if I can get it running that is ;P

Having a Pan car class means buying another car.  Having a 19T class means swaping you motor out of your stock car.  If we are all about keeping it affordable then keeping it TC for the summer is the way to go.  A pan car may be inexpensive for the chasis but you still need an extra ESC, motor, servo, transponder, etc....

Don't get me wrong I'd love to run Pan car and I will if it is a class.  I just think that its nice to have that change between the seasons and it will help with winter attendance in 12th scale by not having it as an option in the summer.  Having 19T TC allows more people access to that class since they either have their stock car already or they have a second TC chasis for 19T.  I know a few more people have bought or are looking for a second chasis for 19T so we should make a decision quickly to prevent those who haven't gotten a second chasis yet from wasting their money.

[DekelzMan]

Running Pro10 with 19t is fine with me as well. As far as if there is a new class and you HAVING to buy another chassis, well thats just you Kurk, you HAVE to run in ALL the classes right? LOL

If I've tallied up correctly, there are more than enough Pro10 cars to run their own heat without the addition of any further cars.

[BigDawg]

what about the guys who run both nitro and pro 10?i do beleive there is a couple of us,who would be screwed out of  one or the other?we always had room for tc 19 why would we not just share sundays between 19tc and 19pro 10?

[BigDawg]

there is a big difference between 12 scale and pro 10, even though they are similar chassis. a small indoor track with 4 cell and 27 turn motors are way different than a big wide open track with 6 cells and a 19turn/or brushless equal

[WhoDoYouThink]

Once again, I'm speaking only for myself here.
With all due respect, I think it would be a huge mistake to try and run two completely different cars on the track at the same time!
It "might" be OK for practice or hacking around, but under serious racing conditions people are going to get choked REAL fast!

First off, you've go the obvious speed differential!
Can you imagine trying to run a stock powered Touring Car at the same time as a Pro10, or a Pro10 against a screaming Nitro Car! You'd be running over each other every lap, especially as the three chassis types handle the track completely differently!

Secondly, you've got the obvious difference in body shape.
I'd be some pissed off to end up getting vaulted out of the track driving a Nitro Car after I inadvertently drove over the wedge shaped body of a Pro10 Car that had just spun out in front of me! Or the other way around! Not that it can't and doesn't happen already, as we all know it does happen, but why would you want to encourage the carnage? Racing would soon deteriorate into chaos!

Thirdly, the weight difference between the three classes of cars is a recipe for disaster if/when they ever come together! And they will!
Broken pieces all over the place. RC racing is expensive enough without adding insult to injury, just because we can.

Whether or not the software can sort out between the different classes is the least of our worries, in my opinion!

Like I was trying to partially suggest in my first post on this topic, the idea of having only 3 classes would help eliminate some of the issues we've had in previous years with trying to wrangle up enough corner marshals/pit guys.
Plus it would make Race Day more of a social event instead of something we end up rushing through with very little time to relax and actually enjoy  ourselves.

[Grinder]

Running Pro10 with 19t is fine with me as well. As far as if there is a new class and you HAVING to buy another chassis, well thats just you Kurk, you HAVE to run in ALL the classes right? LOL

If I've tallied up correctly, there are more than enough Pro10 cars to run their own heat without the addition of any further cars.

Buying a Pan car is no skin off my teeth and I will joyfully run all available classes (or cease to exist!).  I'm just trying to think outside of what I'd like.  I've been know to argue the other side just to get some justification and banter going on.....  it would be nice to get some other opinions here.  This is your time to voice your thoughts guys!

[haddow]

OK I am willing to revise my scheme to make only 3 classes and accommodate the new technology that I feel we JUST CANT IGNORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! especially when it is now officially in our holy grail of rules...ROAR


A) 1x touring class- screw it mix 17.5 and 27T brushed and let what happens happen.

If sooner or later we all end up having brushless systems in our cars....well SO WHAT  that WILL happen anyway, don't fight it. Maybe not quite fair at this very infinitesimal point in time but guess what ANY transition is not going to be easy and heaven forbid somebody might have to buy something. We always protect all these people "that never want to buy anything" Who are these people anyway?


B) 1x pan class - 19t brushless or ROAR approved "equivalent" brushless

C) 1x nitro class - 0.12 (any) also allow ANY Brushless conversion as long as it is a 200 mm nitro chassis.

[SgRddY]

Running Pro-10 and 19T together would be great.  Maybe even open it up to run brushed and brushless equivalent with whatever battery one might have.

Leaving the stock brushed class alone with the possibility of introducing new battery technologies would be great.

Nitro is a a must if there are enough ppl.

Ken