Personal transponders

Blake · December 17, 2009, 04:36:26 PM

After doing a LITTLE research, I found this:

http://www.rctech.net/forum/attachments/electric-road/286879d1195650576-stealth-pt-new-ptx-personal-transponder-ptx-iii.jpg

That picture shows a list of 20 numbers. Presumably, MRT uses these exact 20 numbers on ALL the transponders they build. Can someone (Matt S? Shawn? Tom?) confirm this? I would love to know if every single MRT transponder comes programmed with the exact same set of 20 numbers, or if each transponder has a unique set of 20 numbers.

MRT units can also come with a 21st number programmed in. If you send in an existing AMB unit then you will know that 21st number will be unique. However, if you don't own a AMB unit, then you *hope* MRT is somehow properly giving out unique numbers in that 21st slot....

Blake

dajracer · December 17, 2009, 06:17:30 PM

To all those people wanting transponders, please read Blake's last post and think about it. There could be a problem with duplicate numbers, as earlier stated, since it only appears there are 20 numbers to work with. It is completely up to you guys if you want these transponders. The other option is AMB transponders, but if you look on their site, they are advertising a new model but not to be released until the Spring of 2010. They are cheaper than the current version(if pre ordered) which most of us have but it is the wait period.
As I said, it is up to those who want them as to whether I order them or not. I am more than happy to order them and front the financing, but I don't want to be blamed if we have a problem.
We can figure something out on Saturday.

WhoDoYouThink · December 17, 2009, 06:50:47 PM

Thanks for the heads up guys, it appears it's not quite as clear cut a choice as we had hoped.

Blake · December 17, 2009, 07:10:34 PM

I didn't mean to scare anyone off; especially since I don't know the real answers yet.

20 unique numbers among the club of IROCC is probably OK right now, since 75% of the club already own their own truly unique AMB number. However, as time goes by, and new members come along, and want the cheapest possible personal transponder... the likelihood of conflicts on race-day goes up as each of the 20 preset numbers is "spoken for".

Blake

Tom · December 17, 2009, 07:32:56 PM

As I indicated earlier, it is challenging to invent numbers that work with the AMBrc system. This is why you must send your transponder in to get "cloned," rather than just sending them your number to be issued a replacement.

MRT used to have a policy of only ever issuing replacement transponders to those who sent in a unit to be cloned, and only with the cloned number. This would in principle prevent the issue that people here are concerned about, provided those who had their units cloned kept them.

Once people started re-selling their cloned transponders, this opened up Pandora's box, and for the first time the possibility of duplicate transponders arose.

I suppose MRT has seen the market opportunity in supplying transponders with the option of a number other than what was originally purchased from AMBrc. This is likely due to them cloning 20 that they purchased themselves, or 20 transponders they didn't receive payment for, or similar. I doubt they've broken AMB's encoding scheme, or else there would be no need for them to offer this adjustable solution in this way. They might need to recruit DVD John or someone like that. On 2nd thought, they probably waited 'till they saw numbers that ended in 01 - 20 from people that had sent theirs in to clone, then had a full set of public transponder numbers to program in.

Just owning an MRT transponder in the first place is ethically questionable, as they have clearly infringed on AMB's rights. This process of issuing transponders to those that are not just replacing their faulty units or getting a duplicate unit is even more questionable. I'd be surprised if there is anyting at all unique about the pre-loaded transponders that people are discussing here.

We'll just end up with a configuration issue. We'll need to program a set of club transponders into the computer, being the transponder numbers available in the MRT units. Then, users of these transponders will need to adjust their number in the same way we look at the public transponders that are assigned to us now.

That is, if the club as a whole is interested in legitimising MRT. Personally, I'm against doing so on ethical grounds in this fashion, although I have few qualms about people just duplicating their original AMBrc number.

Blake · December 17, 2009, 07:40:00 PM

Quote from: Tom on December 17, 2009, 07:32:56 PM
We'll just end up with a configuration issue. We'll need to program a set of club transponders into the computer, being the transponder numbers available in the MRT units. Then, users of these transponders will need to adjust their number in the same way we look at the public transponders that are assigned to us now.

I thought of that too. But won't that mean our actual handout transponders will no longer be recognized?

Blake

lightning · December 17, 2009, 07:45:42 PM

I went to mrt's web site it said each one has its own custom code. Plus 20 other options if it conflicts with amb transponders.Thats as long as our system is digital,the analog only have 20 numbers and digital has 10 million.

dajracer · December 17, 2009, 08:23:34 PM

I have sent off a few questions to MRT to try and help make some decisions.

Some questions have been put forth within our club regarding your transponders.
When you say a "new" custom ID, does that mean if I were to purchase more than 20 transponders, would there be any repetition in the numbers? What about the 20 alternative numbers, are they the same in each transponder? What is the total number of numbers you are drawing from to get your custom ID numbers?

Hopefully I will get a reply tomorrow.

Tom · December 17, 2009, 09:27:10 PM

Quote from: lightning on December 17, 2009, 07:45:42 PM
I went to mrt's web site it said each one has its own custom code. Plus 20 other options if it conflicts with amb transponders.Thats as long as our system is digital,the analog only have 20 numbers and digital has 10 million.

Gord, the number of digital numbers you quote is incorrect. See my previous post on this topic. It is true the AMB system 20 (the analogue version you're referring to) had only 20. The AMBrc system has many restrictions on the numbers available eliminating many million possibilities, hence MRT's difficulties in inventing valid AMBrc numbers.

Tom · December 17, 2009, 09:29:34 PM

Quote from: Tom on December 17, 2009, 09:27:10 PM
Gord,

Sorry lightning, I mistook your handle for Gord's. It can be difficult to figure out who's who when so few people use their names.

cyrrus · December 17, 2009, 10:25:19 PM

the 20 number that MRT place on there PT are AMBc are number that Terry from MRT has purchased from AMBc. the only way one will have a conflict with one or more if people running the same number is that if more than 20 are running the MRT untis. In other words no other AMBc transponders that anyone has purchase will have the same number as the MRT units.

Gorden · December 17, 2009, 11:26:09 PM

I would hope that if there were two Transponders using the same number that the AMB one would have rights to the number since you can't change them

Blake · December 18, 2009, 01:45:51 AM

Quote from: cyrrus on December 17, 2009, 10:25:19 PM
the only way one will have a conflict with one or more if people running the same number is that if more than 20 are running the MRT untis

That's true Andrew, but we don't want to get in a situation where we have 30 MRT owners, and only 20 numbers to share around between them. It'd be a big pain from a race organizer perspective, because we'd have to constantly tell racers which of the 20 preset numbers to use on that given day.

Blake

Shawn68z · December 18, 2009, 06:08:45 PM

Get an AMBrc for your first transponder. Then send it to get clonded. Once its cloned, all you then have to do is order the "Custom" unit, and they already have your # on file, so you dont have to send the AMB away again.

We have all spent hundreds (if not thousands) on RC gear. Is another $30 going to break the bank? This is a big can of worms that can easily be avoided.

Shawn.

BCbud · December 18, 2009, 07:38:03 PM

New AMB transponders
http://www.mylaps.com/index.php/us_eng/Websites/B2C/rc/products