ESC & 17.5

[valk]

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[Shawn68z]

Honestly, the ONLY THING that changed this year was the choice to try out spec tires.
esc has been blinky only for as many years as i have been involved and 17.5 turns. the only illegal motor i know of would be the d3.5 but for club racing, i dont really think anyone gives a crap.

short of rewinding your motor with thicker wire or running an illegal roar modified rotor, fill your boots. if the company sells rotors for spec racing, go nuts if your budget allows.
Most of us don't bother with rotor tuning but there is a place for it for sure. I have a few rotors but rarely change them out. of course, we all drive differently.

if you all have good 17.5 equipment from yesteryear, there is NO REASON to buy new equipment at all. ive seen some duo1s in cars doing well. gerry ran that "not good for blinky racing" speed passion last year and was top 5 almost every time he ran it. hell, glenn borrowed his car and ran it and finished second i think lol.

the only way we can avoid all this spec argument is to run open touring car.. or buy a bunch of rtrs and hand them out. otherwise, run what you got and try to have fun. this isn't nationals.

Would you mind taking your mindless rant somewhere else.  This topic has no argument about tires, re-winding motors, rules have changed this year, or how we should run RTR's.   Open your on topic/forum, or try an contribute something actually useful.

Shawn.

[MickSz]

I'll be running my LRP Flow speedo and Speedzone motors.

[Shawn68z]

I'll be running my LRP Flow speedo and Speedzone motors.

Nice.. I have heard a lot of good things about the LRP Flow. 


Shawn.

[MickSz]

I switched to LRP about 3 years ago and dumped all the tekin stuff, never been happier, so easy to set up, much smoother on power and brakes, no complaints at all.

[Tom]

Yep.. Blinky ESC,  and 17.5 Motor.      Your allowed to change the rotor if you want (most guys I don't bother), and you can change the end bell timing.   That's all there is to it.

What about changing the stator too?

My gripe about stock nowadays is:

• Timing is adjustable, and therefore it is a tuning option that runs the risk of cooking motors
• Rotor choice is adjustable, meaning that stock isn't really stock, as you can build all sorts of different stock motors depending on which rotor you use
• Stators can even be swapped out, but I'm not 100% sure which stator choices are legal and which aren't. I'm sure someone won't hesitate to jump in and fill in these details

What's awesome about stock nowadays is:

• Brushless motors are awesome because they don't wear out.
• Brushless motors are awesome because there's nothing to maintain on them.
• Brushless motors are just awesome.

Stock went from being tightly controlled where different brands of motors had different performance tendencies, to a wide open playing field where any particular brand could be tuned to have vastly different tendencies.

I guess an analogy would be the old rules specified engine displacement and # of cylinders, allowing manufacturers to tune by bore/stroke ratio, where nowadays the only rule is engine displacement, allowing manufacturers to tune by bore/stroke ratio and # of cylinders. Don't forget though that in doing so, reliability has shot up hugely (when's the last time someone has had a hung brush?) and maintenance effort and cost has plummeted (when's the last time someone cut their comm before the main?).

[Shawn68z]

Yep.. Blinky ESC,  and 17.5 Motor.      Your allowed to change the rotor if you want (most guys I don't bother), and you can change the end bell timing.   That's all there is to it.

What about changing the stator too?

My gripe about stock nowadays is:

• Timing is adjustable, and therefore it is a tuning option that runs the risk of cooking motors
• Rotor choice is adjustable, meaning that stock isn't really stock, as you can build all sorts of different stock motors depending on which rotor you use
• Stators can even be swapped out, but I'm not 100% sure which stator choices are legal and which aren't. I'm sure someone won't hesitate to jump in and fill in these details

Changing the Stator was not designed as a tuning option, but as a cheaper way to get your motor up and running if you accidently fried it.  I run the Novak Ballistic motors that have changeable stators. Technically I own 3 motors, but I have 5 different stators. I have a full range of stators:  8.5T,  10.5, 13.5 and 17.5  Depending on which car I put the motor in I change the stator to that classes' rules.   Its cheaper then buying 5 different motors, and if I do smoke a motor its $30 for a new stator, not $80 for a new motor.  It has also allowed me to upgrade one of my motors. I fried my 17.5 acouple of years ago in my TC, so I bought the new "High Rpm" stator. Amazing difference, but I don't consider it a tuning option, as all their new motors use this newer stator. (short stack).

I don't think Stock brushed racing was really stock though.   With brush cutting, hood alignments, spring dyno's, and all the different "stock" motors out there, they all were designed different, and ran differently.  There was always the constant "motor" of week. I know I have 3-4 different types of motors in my shop from just a few years of running brushed motors. And each one of them has a different spring/brush combination on them, and required a different roll out.  So having acouple of rotors available to play with doesn't seem to be a big deal to me. I think most companies only have 2-3 rotors for their motors. (except Speedpassion that has a rotor for every class of car!)

The timing issue is hard to regulate with the brushless motors. I agree they should have had a 25deg 17.5 "Stock" motor, and basically had a ROAR Stock Spec motor. (including Rotor too).   But I really wonder if companies could make a motor that were all equal to each other.   Novak has become famous for a Zero deg timing, that is actually 30 degrees. I personally find that brushless motors are very sensitive to timing adjustment, even with the same manufacture. On some motors just acouple of degree's can turn a dog of a motor into a real performer.   Go alittle to far though, and you just created a smoke trail.


As for you question about that "Last time someone had a hung brush.."  Cameron did last summer.  Problem was when he told me it wasn't working right, it took my awhile to figure out what the problem was!  Poor kid lost out on his main because of a lazy mechanic that doesn't do motor maintenance anymore! 

Shawn.

[Shawn68z]

Maybe for next year if IROCC is still considering a Club Spec motor we should consider something like the link below. Locked End Bell timing motor, and they retail for $30 US.  Not ROAR. But who cares.  For Speedweekend you can pull out the fancy motor, and crank the timing to the moon, then run the club motor for the rest of the year. And for $30, I don't think anyone can complain about the price.

http://www.speedpassion.net/us/productDetails.asp?p=SP000017&c=MTR

Shawn.

[rcshadow]

   I have to agree with the lack of over all maintenance of brushless motors but I do miss the fiddling with brushes and springs once I got a handle on what changed and did what to the motor. Not always up on the latest trends I never bought another rotor for brushless to see what it does, nor did I ever go for the most expensive motor on the market. I did however, because of smoked comms, swapped some in brushed, but usually that was cause of necessity and we used club motors at the time.
  But I can confirm that my $45 trackstar "pre roar" was no match for others Orion or LRP etc $100.00 motors. Maybe with another season or just more track time to mess with timing more and gearing may have helped but I doubt it. I think what I found true about the article that Mick posted was that back in the brushed days a "stock" motor was locked in certain ways including somewhat in regards to price. I see rc mushroom has motors for sale. They have a trinity 13.5 roar approved spec motor for $30 for sale, honestly, how good do you think it will match up to a $94 Orion motor. Even a Novak motor is around $100.
  I rather agree that a stock brushless motor maybe should have had locked timing and possibly a price point that makes it less about wallet racing than brand preference. There is no way roar approved or not, that a $40 motor will come anywhere near a $100 motor.
  That's why it's also tough to have a spec club motor. We get a great deal and have great fun till we go to a trophy race and our motors are no match unless you have spent more cash to have a trophy race motor. Trophy races would have to come with spec tires and a handout motor to make it even that everyone has to try within a few hours to see what gets it going before the Sunday mains. Again added costs to the average racer.
  It's seems over some web sights it's cheaper to get a mod motor than a spec motor where as before I thought it was the other way around, no one ran spec it was all about the speed. 

[Shawn68z]

But I can confirm that my $45 trackstar "pre roar" was no match for others Orion or LRP etc $100.00 motors.

  I rather agree that a stock brushless motor maybe should have had locked timing and possibly a price point that makes it less about wallet racing than brand preference. There is no way roar approved or not, that a $40 motor will come anywhere near a $100 motor.

  That's why it's also tough to have a spec club motor. We get a great deal and have great fun till we go to a trophy race and our motors are no match unless you have spent more cash to have a trophy race motor. Trophy races would have to come with spec tires and a handout motor to make it even that everyone has to try within a few hours to see what gets it going before the Sunday mains. Again added costs to the average racer.

Regarding the trackstar (isn't it just a copy of the Reedy ?)  If everyone is running the same motor, it doesn't matter if its slower then other motors.  Everyone will be slow.   And when it comes to slowness, its better to be slow, as its easier for new comers to drive the cars, and hopefully get into the hobby.  The club can keep acouple of $30-40 motors on hand, just like the tires.

Ok, so when it comes to trophy races, I fully understand that a Locked End Bell, or a trackstar (?)  wont keep up with a Novak, LRP, or an ORCA.  But how many of our members actually go to a trophy race? Blake, Craig, and Daryl are the only 3 guys that regularly travel to any race out of the area.  So if your already spending $300-400 for a weekend of racing, then your probably going to run a "Good" motor, new batteries and 3-4 sets of tires anyways. 


The "Average" racer doesn't go to Trophy races. They want an inexpensive car they can competitively race and have fun with,  for as little money as possible. 

Shawn.