New ROAR Rules

[gearhead]

The 27T class is the entry level class, we should keep it reasonably inexpensive.
Why not open up the old 19t class to brushless and mod brushed motors and keep 27t the same.

[Tom]

I really don't like the idea of trying to run different chassis simultaniously.

Touring cars (nitro and electric) handle very differently when it comes to acceleration, corner speed, and top speed.  There is a similar difference with pan car vs. touring car, any flavor.  This is just a recipie for disaster as far as sharing the track, passing, etc.  Two similar cars (skill and race time wise, but different chassis types) would want to pass each other twice for every corner on the track each lap.

However, I am not opposed to the idea of scoring two different classes with the same chassis (especially if they're two flavors of the same class) simultaniously, since the gross chassis handling characteristics should be similar.

I like Nick's proposal as a baseline.  I would suggest if we were to modify Nick's baseline proposal, it would use my above guidelines.

So, that leaves us with these possibilities:

Touring stock
Touring gas
Pro 10

Touring stock could have several flavors (it would probably be best to limit it to two sub-classes of traditional stock or lithium brushless stock)

Pro 10 could easily be a full-blown lithium brushless (let nickle brushed compete though, since it takes finesse to put down the horsepower with these cars)

Gas would be the same as always.  I think mixing electric anything with gas would be a horrible mistake.

This gives us 4 classes scoring wise with 3 classes race wise.

Again, it's not decided yet, nor will it be decided in this forum.  However, it's an idea.

[gotnitro]

yes please leave my gas heat alone[no electric please]

[RC51]

Sooooooo, are we recommending summarily dropping 19T? Weren't there more cars here than in Nitro on many occasions?

[BigDawg]

by looking back at race results from 2007 the answer is  NO! mabye once or twice 19 had 1 more racer,although i only went through the first 2/3 of the season im sure the rest of the season would be close to the same

[Grinder]

I don't think Nitro is going anywhere.  The numbers aren't the only thing to take into account with Nitro as it is the major draw to our outdoor racing.  Stock definately isn't going anywhere - that's our bread and butter.  Wether we try and hold off the inevetable conversion to brushless or not remains to be decided but it will be very close to whatever we were originally runing.  Same goes for the battery chemistry.  I think playing too much with Stock is a mistake but if we decide to go mixed with brushed/brushless its only a matter of time before anyone really serious moves to brushless anyhow.

What the main change I think will be is if 19T TC gives way to Pan car of some flavor.  19T was an experimental class and it did very well.  I guess one of the questions is if we want to throw out TC and bring Pan in its place.  I don't think mixing chasis is a good idea like Tom said (esp in Nitro/Pan - Nitro would kill on the straight and Pan would kill on the infield and each would expect the other to give way only to be caught on the transistion)  Other than the few of us that are posting on here what are the other club member's thoughts?

[jarrodH]

i dont know what the answer is to all this, but you gotta aleave the stock 27t class, as just that, a 27t brushed nimh class, other wise you will lose most, if not all your younger and new members..all of a sudden they lost most of the chance of moving up in the classes. because the A/B and some C guys will have brushless/lipo stuff.

my .02

[Grinder]

Well all the new members would buy brushless - its cheaper.  Anyone competative with 27T NiMH will be in the A or B - the difference isn't that big - it is there though.  Its not like you are running against a 19T car - more like a 26T car.  Besides even if it was a 19T car the difference is usually only a lap between 27T and 19T with the best drivers and most average drivers are actually slower with their 19T cars.

[BigDawg]

any racers we lost going to brushless wouldnt be around long anyway,the cost is not all that much cant be more than buying a few new motors and and what ever

[dajracer]

My turn!!
I am in agreement with just running 3 classes on any given race day. I am assuming those who want to run Pro 10 would reduce the car count for the 19t TC, thus making it a class with likely only 4 or 5 cars on a good day and basically killing the class. This would be fine with me, because I could get away with only running one class, which means there will likely be a T2 on the market shortly.
As far as the stock class(27t brushed motors), I don't think we can touch it other than the battery issue. The battery issue is a dilema for us, I think we should be going to a lithium based cell rather than NiMH, but NiMH could still be used in this class. Yes, we have to accept the change that is coming but not necessarily right away.
When it comes to running brushed and brushless(as 2 classes) in the same heat, I am completely against that. I know how p---ed off I would be if I was taken out by somebody running in my main but competing in a different class, and there are others that would get a lot more upset than me. And when people get upset, quite often they say to heck with it and just don't bother coming out anymore.

Getting back to Pro10, what is the estimated car count expected. Is it worth us giving up a class with an average of 7-8 racers for a class that may only field 5-6 cars, or am I underestimating the number of cars.

Nitro? Everybody that has been around the club for a while knows my feelings(or lack of) for this class but I agree, it is an evil necessity for our audiences sake. It does draw the crowds, but what also keeps the crowds is the fast moving program which we are able to keep with the number of classes that we currently run.

After all this, I guess my vote for classes would be;
1- Stock 27t brushed class, lithium based or NiMH batteries.
2- Pro10 19t or comparable brushless, lithium based or NiMH batteries.
   Replaced by Touring 19t or comparable brushless if the car count is not good enough(wait, maybe I won't sell my second T2 yet).
3- Nitro, these guys make there own rules.

[gotnitro]

what im confussed nitro makes their own rules.I remember trying to run a GTP body and Tom making a stink over it. I do agree 3 classes or we would have to start earlier and end later. What about those wanting to run 19t touring 1 week and the following week pro 10?

[BigDawg]

lets face it this has nothing to do with nitro!its all about brushed or brushless ,the last time i checked nitro used neither and batteries no one ever complained about any battery in any nitro car,lets dump 19t tc whats the difference between 19 and 27 one or two laps not much speed,if we are going to run a second electric class why wouldnt it be something different? like pro 10, as far as batteries are concerned is there a difference between the guy who couldnt afford new batts and has to run against the guy who has 12 packs new every season- and the guy who has to run against lipo or whatever with his old batts

[DekelzMan]

I'm afraid I don't see what relevance there is in "drawing a crowd". What difference does it make how many spectators we have? Does IROCC make money from the fans? Do we get new-comers wanting to get into racing from the fans? Not many, maybe 1 per year. Does our using the parking lot stipulate we need to draw a crowd for us to stay there? Do we care during the winter how many people sit and casually watch the racing? I think hanging onto a class because it's a crowd pleaser is the most desperate of arguments I've ever heard.

Wow.

Lets debate the merits of the class based on the class itself, not the casual onlookers.

[BigDawg]

well i can say for one it was nitro that made me find this club!!!! yes i was at wendy's after taking my offroad truck to the bmx, i hear the nitro race and the rest is history. so drawing a crowd in other words very important we get a lot of people asking questions, hanging out and gettin the word out on what we got goin on, wich i know has brought new club members in who end up racing stock ect....so i think nitro benifits the whole club ,what is it again that 19t tc does or for that matter 19 t pan? for the club that is

[Gorden]

When is come down to it. I bought a 2nd T2 just to run 19t or what ever it turns out to be. So I would run what ever TC class were decided on.

I have no interest in getting into any other class of car at this time

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